I work in animation. I am in hell. I am back.

Wednesday, March 14, 2007

ORGANIC MOTION: RENDERING 3D ANIMATORS OBSOLETE

The upward trend of animation students solely pursuing 3D animation was upsetting to me at first.

Next, the introduction of motion capture made me red in the face because it killed numerous jobs in the 3D field and because it then made it possible to call a live action sequence filmed in front of motion capture cameras "animation", which people have undoubtedly been swallowing.
At least then, the person performing the actions was forced to feel like a complete asshole by wearing a spandex suit full of reflective markers.

But now we're looking at a new era where anyone can jump in front of a camera in street clothes, capture the motion, apply it, and PRESTO you're an animator? WAIT WHAT?!

What's next? Give it time and we won't even need a 3D scanner, all that these studio executives will need is a brainchild locked in a cage pumping ideas directly from his cranium into a machine...

Watch it and weep... HERE

187 comments:

Anonymous said...

What were people expecting in 3D ? I mean even the cameras you get from Logitec come with facial tracking software that you can use to do video's with (50 dollars ) . Did anyone think 3D was ever going to be a permanent job ? This isn't the end of the tech, it's the beginning. Just the beginning. In the next ten years I expect that they will do everything and anything to cut costs and artists out because we are a pain in the butt to them. Enjoy the fleeting moments while we can.

Anonymous said...

Wow it really was like watching a magic show. Considering that most motion capture data is tossed out and then hand keyed (yes Gollum was mostly all hand keyed)..i would wait before panicing....smoke and mirrors my friends..

Paul said...

The next step in motion capture: as long as you move slooooowly and keep your limbs fully extended. Lotsa acting choices there...

Yeah, it'll get better, but...

james said...

All of the truly ignorant producers out there will embrace this technology and think it will solve all of their problems - what they'll get in return is a lot of really dull-looking crap that they'll hand off to a bunch of talented animators to 'tweak'.
Of course, the 'tweaking' will turn into months of overtime for the animators and no one will consider the fact that if they had merely paid some animators up front to do the motion they would have saved themselves time, money and manpower.
But they'll continue to praise the technology.
Assholes.

Blair Kitchen said...

wow. look at the wonderful weight, and sense of timing you get from that demo.

Anonymous said...

This is fantastic! The more producers keep trying to get things to move more realistic, the more audiences will starve for real animation, especially 2D cartoons.

Frank Summers said...

haha i love all the "acting" going on in the demo.

myself, im a 2D animator. but i see how this can be a valuable tool if used properly. i like the idea of maybe someday an animator getting up, trying out a scene in front of it and then studying the data to better understand the action. then use what he observes from that in his scene in a more tradional, key framed way.

Anonymous said...

apply it to fine art and keep it the fuck out of cartoons

Anonymous said...

You know, we've had paint and canvas easily available to any schmuck for centuries and I haven't noticed a glut of Rembrandts.

When will people realize that tools don't make art?!?!

People will see stuff like this and think "Hey, I don't need to know anything about animation. I just need a camera and I'm an animator!"

The truth is that in the hands of talented artists, this tool could be used to make something good. It would never be animation, but it would still be useful. I'd be more afraid of this if I were a stunt man.

Roy said...

Speaking semi-off topic...
Can we all stop pretending that 'Meet the Robinsons' is going to be a good movie? It's going to be every bit as abominable as goddammed 'Chicken Little' was. Both movies were horrible. Disney seems to be stuck in a pool of sticky tar called 'pop culture references' and everything they do is so fucking 'writer-y' it makes me want to eat my own shit.
HEY DISNEY ANIMATION! YOU SUCK! ALL OF YOU SUCK! ALL OF YOUR HORRIBLE MOVIES AND YOUR EVEN MORE HORRIBLE TV SHOWS SUCK REALLY, REALLY, REALLY BADLY!
CHICKEN LITTLE FLOPPED SO YOU HOPED THAT MAYBE BY RIPPING OF 'The Incredibles' THAT YOU'LL STOP SUCKING! BUT YOU CAN'T! YOU JUST UTTERLY SUCK!!!

Anonymous said...

The funny thing is that the guy that commented above me is Roy Disney.

Anonymous said...

Nope, that was Eisner. He said the same thing when he ran Disney.

Anonymous said...

Charles from Animation Nation
Quote:

"I wasn't aware of the original blog. After reading the second version, it sounds to me like they were trying to recreate AN at its beginning only without any direction.

After reading what blogger #2 wrote, I have to say that if I was in hell, and I could get out, I would and I'd recommend getting out to anyone that feels that way about being in animation. Get out and let someone else in who'll take it somewhere besides the same ol worn out whine.

What this blog profoundly underscores is the lack of leadership within the animation industry. For years this kind of stuff has been posted on AN and elsewhere and here we are, in 2007, with anonymous people posting defeatist commentaries and the only solution they have to offer is for others to start more blogs to bitch and complain. No action, no vision for the future except that animation is doomed.

Rent a hall. Organize a meeting. Invite the entire community. Pay for the food. Encourage unity, cooperation and pro-activity. Do it just once. Challenge the industry to observe its own self established holiday and get a message of power and positivity out to everyone. Challenge the artists to take control of their own destiny. Try it and see what it's like.

Let everyone know who you are. So what if you get blacklisted. Be a man, or a woman, or whoever, but just be somebody and stop hiding. Come into the light to take a stand. Don't be controlled by fear."

Anonymous said...

Kevin , The Head of the Animation Guild
on Animation Nation.
Quote:

"Charles, you took the words right out of my mouth with your last two posts. I couldn't have said it any better.

I tried responding to the first Anibator blog. Patiently, repeatedly, in long detailed posts, pointing out what individuals could do to change things. What a waste of time. It was clear that most people, including the blog creator, would rather wallow in helplessness and despair.

I just don't have the time and energy in my life for that kind of bottomless negativity anymore."

Anonymous said...

"AN#7 was held there on April 1, 2005 and we've been invited back for a special afternoon at the museum for AN#9"

In 9 years of bitching in the open, what have you accomplished ?

Anonymous said...

oh yes anonymous bitching is much better...it takes away accountability for ones words

Anonymous said...

Accountability implies someone has taken a risk. Please provide proof of that.

Roy said...

At least here you can post ANY opinions that you want.

Charles runs AN like a fucking Nazi camp. If your opinions differ from his even in the slightest, your posts are removed or you get yelled at by him or his mindless cronies.

Bitching anonymously is INCREDIBLY helpful because it sheds light on problems that no one would dare speak in a public forum.

Animation Nation hails itself as this marvelous entity, but I haven't seen it cause any major changes.

Meanwhile, this board has spawned at least a couple of other discussion boards wherein people are, in fact, discussing things openly and honestly without fear.

AN is about a narrow point of view. This board is about wide open (and often scary) ideas.

And, yes, it is a place to vent.

I, for one, have found a couple of months worth of ranting on Anibation Fantasy to be a hundred times more helpful than almost a decade of repressive, moralistic, self-serving preaching on AN.

Obviously others agree, because on the original board I seem to recall countless posts of people saying "this is the best blog ever".

So AN can just quit patting themselves on the back for doing nothing.

Anonymous said...

Amen ! Well said !

Anonymous said...

I can't believe that whatshisface at AN has the guts to say that shit ! That is why a blog like this is totally due. AN is a gutless , inactive fan board that promises everything yet delivers nothing. Rent a hall ? Pay for food ? What for ? What was your point, to spend money on something that does nothing but reinforce your stupid ego ? Stop telling people you have a direction when after nine years nobody can see it.

Anonymous said...

"oh yes anonymous bitching is much better...it takes away accountability for ones words" - AN


So is "gergley " a real name ? How about "Doodles " , "Ganklin ", "bigshot ", "australopith ",spacelobster ", "Fooksie " , "Durrien ", "animator-boy", "SNAKEBITE", "Kion '"Graphiteman " or "eBee ". Other than the owner, self employed and doesn't have a job to lose .. seems to me there is just a huge ass full of hypocrisy about accountability. So when is everybody there going to use their real names ?

smash&grab said...

some of the posters on AN do write their names after their posts, and many of them have links to their websites.
if you're DYING to know who it is, it's not too difficult.
also i agree with kevin. if you don't stand up for yourself, you deserve shit.

however, this blog is, HANDS DOWN, light years ahead of AN and many other mealy-mouthed sissy flowery water-downed art blogs.

on cartoon brew some pissant even told amid and jerry to "do an animation to be critiqued" because he thought they were being to negative.

GROW THE FUCK UP! if shit is shit, why candy coat it?

THANK GOD amid and jerry have the balls to speak their mind and THANK GOD for this blog.

out of Animation Nation, Anibation Fantasy and Cartoon Brew...which ONE could the animation field do without?

(hint: not the last 2)

Anonymous said...

Agreed.

But this blog needs some new posts.

Anonymous said...

"some of the posters on AN do write their names after their posts, and many of them have links to their websites. if you're DYING to know who it is, it's not too difficult."

The discussion was about accountability for ones words. A few of them do list their sites but to say they are accountable is really pushing it . There is no way to know so there are anonymous posters there.

I love Cartoon Brew by the way and agree on the reviews.

Anonymous said...

Talking about a waste of time like AN is useless.


The union rag just mentioned this blog. Not good, not bad , just a couple mentions. The exhead of the union said that the real hero's were on the picket lines during the strike but this union doesn't strike so there goes everybody's chance to be a hero. KInd of funny to be talking all old school when the new union board made it impossible.

smash&grab said...

"The discussion was about accountability for ones words."

"The discussion was about accountability for ones words."

thanx for the recap, i don't speak english very well.

"A few of them do list their sites but to say they are accountable is really pushing it . There is no way to know so there are anonymous posters there."

the ones who speak up the most have links to their sites or use their names. ALL? no. but while anonymous, they aren't as anon as this place.

i agree with what someone said above. this place needs a new BLOG POST!

a new blog once a week or once every other week seems suitable.

DELIVER.

Anonymous said...

"the ones who speak up the most have links to their sites or use their names. ALL? no. but while anonymous, they aren't as anon as this place. "

I can see the executives retribution being levied now on those unemployed flash students and fan site owners. The horror, the horror.

Anonymous said...

This is off topic, but I came across aother blog today called "Phantom Presence" that was started almost a year ago: http://the-phantom-presence.blogspot.com/
Has a similar ring to this blog here...wondering if anyone knows anything about it.

smash&grab said...

question::
Why doesn't the US produce quality adult animation?

I don't mean southpark, tv funhouse or shrek where it's all a joke. i got so sick of the "oh i like shrek better than monsters inc. y'know, cuz it's for adults".

I watch animation from all over, Europe, Japan, US blah blah but it's no secret that the US seems to be stuck in the "animation is for kids" mindset.

Is it really just the public who thinks animation is for kiddies? Or the artists as well? Could any animation studio produce an adult(not porn) but fighting, killing, sexual situations feature, short or otherwise? Animators always complain about how the studios make only stuff for kids, but...would they REALLY wanna work on a sex scene or a killing scene?

Aeon Flux, of course, comes to mind. Delicious! The shorts, of course, not the watered down "episodes" with dialogue.

Is there a market or even a desire for mature animation production in the US?(that's not hidden in comedy?)

Anonymous said...

LOVED aeon flux! got em on dvd. :)

but yeah i noticed and wondered the same thing too. not sure what style they'd use but it'd be refreshing to see something other than potty humor "adult" animation and rainbow brite come out of the US.

my friend said "prince of egypt" was for adults. yeah, um zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

said said...

Wasn't this post about motion capture?

I'm curious what Ralph Bakshi would do with a mo-cap system.

Anonymous said...

He'd make a really awful piece of crap movie or tv show.

smash&grab said...

"Wasn't this post about motion capture?"

key work being "was". you want to talk about mo-cap for the next 3 months? feel free.

for the record, i'm not curious in the slightest with what bakshi could do with mo-cap.

i loved RB's new adventures of mighty mouse, but that credit goes to John K for the awesome poses and animation(also for the record i like the orign. ren & stimpy/ new mighty mouse but def. not a John K nuthugger).

Anonymous said...

Technology ain't gonna solve crappy stories, it's just gonna allow more idiot wannabes to jump into the market.

The other problem is that everyone is relying on some big-ass company run by f*cking morons to run the business, rather than learning to do business as an independent studio and becoming self-sufficient.

If you rely on someone else to write your stories for you and deal with the ugly business for you and call all the creative shots, well, you've got no right to bitch and moan about the company. LEAVE THE COMPANY, learn scriptwriting, cinematography, acting, how to deal with sound and production on your own! If you think that all you need to be an animator is to have good drawing skills, think again.

There's a lot of great books on how to do this, all written by the pioneers of your field and the equipment you can buy with your pocket money is far better than anything that they had back in the golden years of animation! There's no bloody excuse to rely on morons to run the show anymore!

flippineck said...

The fact is that most people entering animation now realise (unlike us old-timers...) that you need to make money to make it a viable form of living - these methods are about getting to the end product as fast as possible.

That's no defense of Mocap though, I hate it - it's ultimately artless and if your actors are rubbish, so it goes that the "animation" will be rubbish too...but since when was commerce about "Art" ? - only when it became "Commercial Art" - as indeed cartoons and comics were described at one time...

flippineck said...

I thought the guy with the ball in his mouth and tied to the lampost was funnier...

Actually, technically speaking this is interesting - like all tools, it needs someone / some people with enough imagination & skill to make it useful - for too long the technical shortcomings of any technology, eg Mocap, have hampered the production of anything which does'nt look half arsed or phony - maybe this is a solution...

Anonymous said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WczXvLl7vpQ

Anonymous said...

Needed a repost.

One of the biggest lies about disney feature animation that have been written about in the media is how the disney animators had been "retrained" for the new technology. It puts a great face on things and supports the notion that the computer is only a tool. The truth is that when i think of all the employees that I worked with when I was an artist there, I can only think of about 20 people I know that are still there. People were given a phony chance to retrain and prove themselves- if they did so, they were given the impression that they would simply be animators using another tool. The established cgi supervisors in place(most of who cam from extremely low-end animation backgrounds) were put in charge to train and review the traditonal artists who were successfully doing great cgi tests on their own time. This fox in the henhouse scenario played out just as you would imagine. countless artists who created iconic works loved the world over were falsely branded as "not being able to get the new technology by these cgi "sups" in charge and were tossed out on there ass- some after 25 years of service. This was underplayed and lied about in the media over and over. a small few tradional artists were allowed to stay and make the transition. a few had to be spared to make the numbers look better. Part of the reason the animation in chicken little and meet robinsons looks so terrible is because they are being animated by mediocre 2d artists who got into computers because they couldn't draw well,ex video game animators, and many others with even lesser background. all i am saying is that your rant about how dubious the backgounds are of development execs, the same thing has filtered down to the animators themselves- most notably at disney feature animation- the place where the besy animators in the world used to be. like i said, a few good artists kissed ass and kept their mouths shut about this to stay on board- but the number is very few in an organization that boasted the greatest artists in the world. Now they are filled with people who can use maya to a degree, but wouldn't have made it past portfolio review to be a trainee a few years ago.

flippineck said...

Anonymous: as much as I dislike the "business head" mentality in contemporary animation - there's a good reason why "veterans" are not kept on - they are simply too expensive, or rather, their younger replacements are cheaper (by the dozen...) - it has very little to do with the skillset they bring to the job...Disneys loss I guess...

"Suits" never learn - they throw the baby out with the bath water...

Roy said...

Look, the fact is there's no such thing as job security in this or any other industry.

You can keep up with the technology, constantly re-invent your skill-set, perpetually improve your craft and STILL find youself unemployed and out on your ass at some point.

Why do you think people are so relieved to have a place to vent anonymously?
It's because ass-kissing and politics have become just as important to maintaining your career as your actual talent (in many cases, it's MORE important).

Petran said...

3D or 2D or whatever technique is used, there are still great animated features. eg one Polish feature titled "The Cathedral". Problem is they're not mainstream (and commercial for that matter) and you either have to be an animator or well delved in the world of cinema or a cinema reviewer to watch them and so you have to know 1-2 things more. Same goes for any art medium (film, music, sculpture, paintings etc)

Compare the number of votes current Pixar features get on IMDB with the number of votes films like Tale of Tales, Prince Ahmed, Le Roman de Renard or Krysar get.

Shows the chasm in how the public regard animation

Anonymous said...

Just some thoughts , Anibator if you are out there ...

I think it is great to get this stuff off our chests before we move on. And no, unlike those who flog the "keep up on technology " crap I don't believe that there is a way to save yourself . That is like saying go get a job flipping burgers because it is still a job. It's not the same job or even close.

Now I will be honest, 3D bores me. Not attacking anyone or their job but Jesus I have to force myself to keep my eyes open to watch it. Now I can either learn to turn out this junk that bores me or lose my job ? Excuse me but fuck you ! I will find another way. So there. Enjoy what you do whatever it is but don't get caught up in the trends. There is no such thing as a secure job and that is probably a good thing.

everyone with brains said...

i realize this is off-topic, but i believe it merits repeating as many times as possible:
BARNYARD IS ABSOLUTELY THE WORST ANIMATED MOVIE EVER AND QUITE POSSIBLY THE WORST MOVIE EVER PERIOD THERE IS NO DEBATE IT IS AN ABOMINATION TO EVERYTHING GOOD AND DECENT IN THE WORLD AND STEVE ODEKIRK SHOULD BE DEEPLY ASHAMED OF HIMSELF FOR MAKING SUCH UTTER TRIPE!!!!!!!!
oh, and one more thing:
CLASS OF 3000 IS ABSOLUTELY THE WORST ANIMATED TV SHOW EVER AND QUITE POSSIBLY THE WORST MOVIE EVER PERIOD THERE IS NO DEBATE IT IS AN ABOMINATION TO EVERYTHING GOOD AND DECENT IN THE WORLD AND CARTOON NETWORK SHOULD BE DEEPLY ASHAMED FOR MAKING SUCH UTTER TRIPE!!!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

Can you please start a new subject, this one entitled:

Rip off artists.

example:

Once there was disney artist who created, animated, and boarded a short it was called Timmy adventures in the wilderness.
Now this Disney artist wanted to submit his short to the festivals , but if he did so Disney would claim the rights to his character since he was under contract to them at the time.
So the artist had idea , he would have his friend Mark Simon who didnt work at Disney,sumbit it to the festivals . Well wow!!
Its a hit, and Mark collects all the glory !
Now I 'm happy the short got made , but I don't like the fact that Mark Simon writes books and articles about how to and how he made the short . His career is based on a lie.

Anonymous said...

I found this link through Animation Nation so it can't be all bad. If anything the site has been successful. It's done a lot more than what's been given credit for. I enjoy it and don't have the problem that some people here do.

Technology marches on and animation has to catch up with it. The suits will take every advantage of it to make their movies and animators can too. If animators don't stay on top of it then we'll be left by the wayside with nothing better to do but bitch on blogs. Ranting is cool but in the end it doesn't solve anything. Animators have to move forward because the technology is moving forward. We need to find ways of staying viable with technology. Use it to make us less dependent on the suits.

Anonymous said...

Animation Nation, just shut the fuck up about that waste of net bandwidth . And take your "technology marches on", "animators left by the wayside " crap and shove it up your ass. Have you read nothing on this site you worthless dweeb ? What an empty and worthless post!

Anonymous said...

agreed!

animation nation is such a self-absorbed self-contained piece of shit site!!! let's do this and that and ultimately DO NOTHING and pat ourselves on the back for it.

can't speak you mind there or you get the finger pointed at you and censored.

censor artists?

GOOD IDEA!!!

grow the fuck up

anibation and cartoonbrew are the future.

Anonymous said...

why the fuck is christy hui in the animation magazine 20th anniversary issue...in the "40 Auteurs We love"???

because of xioashit showdown??? haha gimme a break!

most ofthe people in there deserve thier spot. but wtf has she done??? that show SUX! her pic is hot tho. good eye candy.

auteuer we love? FUCK NO.

animation magazine continues to get it wrong.

CONGRATS!

thank god for mags like animation blast for recognizing REAL talent.

wake the fuck up

al said...

christy hui has a show for the same reasons Karen Chao and Lela Lee do...
They're young, cute girls.
That's how you get a cartoon these days... no need to be talented or anything, just be a cute chick so that the studio can brag "SEE?!?! WE'RE PROGRESSIVE!!!"
Of course, you'll have to be prepared for the constant ass-kissing and thinly-vieled sexual harassment from horny, frustrated executives, but that's a small price to pay, right?

Anonymous said...

I just started in the industry, working in 2d, in harmony, and i have to say as much as it sucks, the only time i hate my job is when the computer is acting up or harmony, as buggy as it is, acts up.
i still get to animate and act through my characters so long as it fits the 'style' of the show. i thought that i would be miserable right away but im not. i always thought that once i got into the industry if i wasnt hand-drawing that it would be this huge drag, but it isnt. ive learned that it just depends on yourself, if you want to be miserable or if you want to live your life to the fullest no matter whats given to you.

Anonymous said...

"ive learned that it just depends on yourself, if you want to be miserable or if you want to live your life to the fullest no matter whats given to you."

awww thanks tinkerbell! gimme some of that pixie dust so i can be a no balls-pantywearing sheep like you.

animation nation is at it again! making an animation day! good or bad?

http://animationday.blogspot.com/

RedDiabla said...

"ive learned that it just depends on yourself, if you want to be miserable or if you want to live your life to the fullest no matter whats given to you."

awww thanks tinkerbell! gimme some of that pixie dust so i can be a no balls-pantywearing sheep like you.


Yeah, knowing that you're in charge of yourself and therefore responsible for staying in your crapacious position is sooooo sissy. It's much more cool to bitterly complain and make cheap shots on others anonymously over internet forums instead!

Anonymous said...

"It's much more cool to bitterly complain and make cheap shots on others anonymously over internet forums instead!"

that line is such an overused cop-out. no one gives a shit about how BRAVE and LEGIT you are for using your name and a link to your art.

there are many more accomplished artists on here than you who have said a lot harsher things than me, anonymously.

bottom line?

get a grip. stop thinking so small. it's more than just individual happiness. it's about an essential movement.

and if the best you can do is regurgitate lines about anonymity, don't bother posting.

take care now!

Anonymous said...

"get a grip. stop thinking so small. it's more than just individual happiness. it's about an essential movement."

essential movement of what? Anonymous bitching? That's no movement!

What do you mean exactly?

When has it not been about individual happiness? So you mean to say that you're ok with the industry moving forward even if you're not happy?

Here, I have a new 'essential movement' proposal:

Everyone stop whining, stop being lazy, stop wasting time on this blog and improve your OWN LIFE. If the industry was full of LIFE then working on other people's shows wouldn't be so emotionally exhausting.

Shut the fuck up and suck it up.

Work on the company's shitty cartoon that you hate. Do your best, stop making enemies. If you're happy with yourself then you can move on to do your own thing.

Take what you learn from your horrible day job animating and put it to good use.

If you are here bitching then you are a waste of space. The only people who care about your negative opinions are other negative emo fucks.

Be ashamed. Why aren't you planning a line of dialogue to animate to RIGHT NOW, for fun?

Why aren't you working on your short flash film RIGHT NOW?

don't respond to this, go animate.

Why the fuck did you get into this industry? Hate it that much? Leave.

Anonymous said...

"So you mean to say that you're ok with the industry moving forward even if you're not happy?"

wow exactly!!! lord knows you can't have both right? imbecile.

"Work on the company's shitty cartoon that you hate."

no need. i have my own company. thanks tho.

"If you are here bitching then you are a waste of space."

ironic.

"Be ashamed. Why aren't you planning a line of dialogue to animate to RIGHT NOW, for fun?"

just finished a revision of a short. thanks!

"Why aren't you working on your short flash film RIGHT NOW?"

1. flash is limited.
2. taking a break from writing to quickly log on to see another worthless spinless bitch like you vent.

as expected, after reading your first line you have nothing new to add.

try harder.

Anonymous said...

so....uh...spiderman 3 animation???

good or bad??

i liked it for the most part. LOVED the birth of the sandman part.

and parts like when spidey jumped off the falling debris was ROCK ON.

venom was ok...a little...strange ...rubbery?

KING KONG SANDMAN ROCKED!!!

Anonymous said...

i liked pretty much all of the sandman animation.

but what was up with the stupid part where venom and sandman fight for 3 seconds before they form an abrupt alliance???

spidey def. went hollywood on this one! no script all fx!

RedDiabla said...

get a grip. stop thinking so small. it's more than just individual happiness. it's about an essential movement.

and if the best you can do is regurgitate lines about anonymity, don't bother posting.


Pot + kettle = black.

Do tell us about what you're doing about any "essential movement".

Besides making snide anonymous remarks, that is.

Anonymous said...

"try harder."

hahaah this turd thinks that guy is speaking directly to him.

"I HAVE my own company.. I HAVE my own short"

laughable

i think the point the guy is making is that EVERYONE should cheer up not just YOU you dumb shit! LOL

Anonymous said...

"Do tell us about what you're doing about any "essential movement"."

you haven't noticed a steady movement over the past few years? y'know where artists make their own books/toys/apparel/shorts, etc? well that's a start. and golly gee, i'm in there too.

"Besides making snide anonymous remarks, that is."

wow. i really hope i can be as brave as you someday as to post a link to my shitty art. someday...

Anonymous said...

"i think the point the guy is making is that EVERYONE should cheer up not just YOU"

great work nancy drew! brilliant deductive reasoning!

yeah, obviously he's speaking to the masses.

i wrote those replies for people like big red who would be questioning what I'M doing personally.

understand now? or should i dumb it down for you?

have a healthy and a happy!

Anonymous said...

geezus!

EVERYONE SHUT THE FUCK UP AND GET BACK TO WORK!!!

thanks.

^_^

Anonymous said...

golden cage

roy said...

say what you want, but all of the "anonymous bitching" that has gone on since this site went up has had an effect on the industry...
the animation guild newsletter and blogs have commented repeatedly, AWN, Animationnation and Animation Magazine have done feature stories on it...
at the very least, the DEGREE of anger and frustration has finally been recognized whereas before it was always discussed in either union-speak or overly diplomatic "can't we all just get along?" prose.
discussions and debates are tearing through the industry and the people who have truly felt the brunt of the idiocy of the way animation is run these days know that they are not alone - and i'm not even referring to the overly dogmatic cultlike john k. followers... everyone knew they were bitter to begin with because everything isn't exactly the way it was in the 40's.
now the industry knows that it's not just extremists that are pissed... they know that it's the average artist slaving dutifully away at their desk or computer who are crying out.
this site has done more to spark REAL debate, discussion and change in a few months than all of the other so-called "voices" of animation have done in a decade or more.
free speech without fear of persecution is a valuable tool for change.

RedDiabla said...

roy: I've seen discussion and debate amongst artists online, but artists have been doing that for awhile. Hell, there hasn't been a time ever in this industry where the artists didn't complain.

To have something like this site as a starting point for change is one thing, but the complaining and negativity tends to feed on itself instead of creating change amongst the majority. Look at the majority of comments on this site; mostly bitching, very little that's constructive, little to no possible solutions given, a LOT of tearing down of others when they're not lock-stepping opinion-wise. That's not helping or supporting your fellow artists, and that's not improving the industry.

There's good reason to be pissed about the way the industry is being run. But anonymous bitching should've been a much shorter term process than it's become. It's easy to complain; it takes dedication to do something about it.

Anonymous said...

Like what for example?

You people who bitch about those of us who bitch are always pushing this notion of "doing something about it"... what's the big solution? Do our own features? Make an independant short?

Those are fine suggestions if you happen to be independantly wealthy AND have an abundance of free time, but part of what has the average-joe animation artist so angry is that we're all working ridiculously long hours for meager pay.

So even if we had the time, we wouldn't have the money. And even if we had the money, we wouldn't have the time.

And all because of this shitty system that's in place.

I can already hear some booster saying "Then help change the system!" which, of course, we've been trying to do for years.

WIth every shitty movie or tv show that comes out, "changing the system" is becoming less and less likely.

We're angry because there is so little hope.

And you also love saying "then get out of the business"... as if THAT'S so easy.

A lot of us have families to support, we have to pay for our kids' school, braces, etc. Changing career is something you can do when you don't have any dependants, but us average guys just don't have that as an option.

So, in the spirit of venting frustrations, take your so-called "solutions" and shove them up your ass.

konky dong said...

bitching means something's wrong.

a lot of bitching means something's very wrong.

MLK or Malcolm X?

the MLK nice & calm way wasn't gettin' shit done. artists have had to resort to the Malcolm X "we will wait no longer. CHANGE NOW" mentality. i'm all aboard that train.

there are a lot of negative things on this site, but...most are TRUE.

sometimes a relentless tearing down is essential before you rebuild.

roy stated::
"free speech without fear of persecution is a valuable tool for change."

this is exactly what makes this site the most useful, unique and worthwhile for the change of animation industry.

it's done it's part, so what's the next step...?

Anonymous said...

You people who bitch about those of us who bitch are always pushing this notion of "doing something about it"... what's the big solution? Do our own features? Make an independant short?

Those are fine suggestions if you happen to be independantly wealthy AND have an abundance of free time, but part of what has the average-joe animation artist so angry is that we're all working ridiculously long hours for meager pay.


"You people" are your fellow artists. Step one: realize all the artists are all in the same boat.

Step two: start chatting with your fellow artists about pay. Why is it such a big secret to ask what other people make money-wise? The bosses count on that. Divide and conquer. It's worked for years, and you've just proved it with the "you people" comment. Way to play into the system!

Step three: don't do unpaid overtime. Their deadlines are ridiculous, right? So why cater to them by taking time away from your life to give to a studio production that doesn't give two shits about you, your work, your career, or your family? Do a 40-hour work week for once. If everyone on a production had the guts to do that, production people might actually take notice of your frustrations. As of right now, no one other than fellow artists have a fucking clue that you're upset about anything. Hit 'em where it hurts.

Step four: take that time that would've gone to the ridiculous deadlines and unpaid overtime and put it into your own work and family. Your art improves with outside influences.

I can already hear some booster saying "Then help change the system!" which, of course, we've been trying to do for years.

How have YOU helped change the system? And what "booster" isn't in the same boat as you?

So, in the spirit of venting frustrations, take your so-called "solutions" and shove them up your ass.

Then nothing has changed, has it.

Wow, that venting sure did a lot of good. Do you feel better now that you've lashed out on a website and not changed your working conditions? Now everyone is as pissy as you, but the attitudes and work conditions stay the same. What an accomplishment!

Anonymous said...

It's always the same... "don't work the unpaid overtime"... yeah, that's a sensible solution when you know full well that there's a 19-year-old waiting in the wings with no kids or family to take care of who will gladly work unpaid overtime for less money. Plus, since producers are all mostly shitty writers who don't know what makes a good animation artist anyway, they're more than willing to dump your ass.

A few months ago, no one knew just how bad the situation was in animation because the union keeps telling everyone that everything is fine and that they've got it all handled.

Now, thanks to this site, there is - at the very least - an awareness of what's going on.

Anonymous said...

It's always the same... "don't work the unpaid overtime"... yeah, that's a sensible solution when you know full well that there's a 19-year-old waiting in the wings with no kids or family to take care of who will gladly work unpaid overtime for less money. Plus, since producers are all mostly shitty writers who don't know what makes a good animation artist anyway, they're more than willing to dump your ass.

You get what you pay for. You wanna live in fear of a 19 year old taking your job? Fine, but don't fuck it up for the rest of us who put a higher value on our time and our talent. You're putting an expectation on the rest of us who give a shit about ourselves that we're supposed to take it up the ass as much as you're willing to. Sorry, but there isn't enough KY in the world to make up for the abuse that you're willing to take.

Why is it that only the childless and mortgageless are to take an actual stand against the bullshit that's going on? Are you actually going to help them out if they do take a stand? If so, how?

Anonymous said...

On a different topic, here's just one more reason why Animationnation sucks:

http://www.animationnation.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=012344

If you dare to express an opinion that Charles disagrees with you get scolded like a 4 year old.

Anonymous said...

"On a different topic, here's just one more reason why Animationnation sucks"

i was gonna post that a few days ago but forgot.

INCREDIBLE.

that place is a JOKE. with all charles' ramblings about the union and making changes in animation, what has he done with that site?

besides promote his shitty crash bandicoot art. LET IT DIE! he keeps rehashing old crash band. threads of his.

it's over. find something new.

oh wait, he did. animation day. waste.

artists are emotional, charles. get a clue. you don't run shit. no wonder your name isn't well respected in the animation community anymore, if it ever was.

anibation fantasy and cartoon brew are the only sites promoting real animation THOUGHT and discussion.

animation nation has FAILED.

Anonymous said...

oops.

before i get skinned alive, i meant to say:

anibation fantasy and cartoon brew are two worthy progressive sites promoting real animation THOUGHT and discussion.

not the "only" ones.

^_^

Anonymous said...

as always dreamworks tried to steal disney's animation thunder by showing small soldiers on tv this weekend.

too bad that movie SUCKED and dreamworks will NEVER hold a candle to pixar animation/storytelling.

nice try guys!

Anonymous said...

This board is completely dead...

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This is fantastic The more producers keep trying to get things to move more realistic,

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This picture is very great i like this picture but this glass is very funny I love it .

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